Marc Fennell does NOT like to ruffle feathers. But something tells us the podcaster, doco maker and TV host’s latest documentary, The State Of Man, is about to do just that.
In the three-part series for ABC, Fennell is taking a deep-dive into the contentious world of the manosphere — and what he’s unearthing makes for uncomfortable viewing.
“I don’t believe in telling people what to think. Lots of people do, but I really don’t,” says Fennell, speaking to STM from his home in Sydney.
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“For me, what I’m hoping (this series) will do, is to provide a focal point to actually decide where we want to go with this issue.
“We are powerful — we can change the conversation.
“And that is the power of doing something on the ABC — you have this amazing opportunity to really change the course of conversation on a national level.”
That’s if you don’t get shouted down by an angry mob, first.
And make no mistakes: there are plenty of disaffected people orbiting the manosphere, ready to ride into battle for their “Bro Messiahs” in Man Land.
In this three-part doco, Fennell meets some of them.
But what sets his exploration apart is the fact he refuses to sit in judgment, which is harder than it sounds — especially when he comes face-to-face with people whose beliefs he finds questionable, at best.
Marc Fennell and social media star Alex Eubank. Credit: Supplied
“I think from my standpoint, when you make a doco like this, it’s best to think of it as ‘starting a conversation that the nation is going to finish’,” Fennell says.
“In this case, I think the conversation has already happened.
“What I am hoping is that we can provide a focal point around it.
“What we have got to talk about is where did (these beliefs) come from? Who is writing the script? Who is profiting off it? Who does it genuinely affect? And what does it look like if we decide, as a nation, that we do want to change the pathway we are on? How do we go about it?”
They’re all great questions.
Louis Theroux: Inside The Manosphere is streaming on Netflix. Credit: Supplied/Courtesy of Netflix
Earlier this year, Louis Theroux got the world talking when he took his own deep dive into the topic via his film, Louis Theroux: Inside The Manosphere, for Netflix.
By that stage, Fennell and his team had been working on The State Of Man for two years. They were interested to hear his take on the same subject.
“It was interesting, because we had well and truly begun filming when the Louis doc came out,” Fennell explains.
“We were a bit like, ‘What does this mean for us?’
“But look, I have interviewed Louis, and I really respect what Louis does and like him, but there are some personality differences between the way he approaches things, and the way I approach things.”
What Fennell does with The State Of Man is what many wish Theroux had been able to do with his film — to go further into the exploration of this nuanced topic.
Theroux’s doco focused primarily on looking at the content creators who make their living spouting the misogynistic rhetoric being spewed out by all-powerful algorithms through social media.
But as Fennel explains, they are only one part of the puzzle, “and I think we were very determined to make sure we showed that they are just one part of a much, much bigger story,” he explains.
In the second episode, Fennell meets an Aussie content producer making bank off the rhetoric he’s spouting to his followers. He’s surprised to find this man is not the person he expected him to be.
“I think for me, one of the crucial moments was with the Australian content creator,” he explains.
“He’s like, ‘You thought I’d be an a..hole, didn’t you?’
“And I’m like, ‘Yep, I really did.’”
Marc Fennell travelled to Las Vegas for the Enhanced Games, which took place in May this year. Credit: Supplied
He then travels to the Enhanced Games, the contentious earlier this year that saw elite athletes competing to break Olympic records with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs.
He stands on the periphery as an observer.
“With the guys in Vegas, Mel (Melissa Maclean), the director, she was like, ‘we have to put in an acknowledgement, that this is what their business is; that the reality is that everyone is trying to sell you something”.
In that case, it’s vitamin supplements, human growth hormones, steroids — all touted as a ‘cure-all’ to the insecure men who cleave to their message that just one more pump at the gym will see them overcome whatever negative voices are inside their head telling them they are “less than”.
Later in the same episode, Fennell meets a young man named Raymond, a reserved loner and self-confessed former “incel” (involuntary celibate) who has spent the past year or so at the gym trying to optimise his fitness.
He seems convinced he can perform his way out of his social awkwardness. It’s a devastating encounter.
As part of the doco, Fennell speaks with former Prime Minister Julia Gillard about the enduring legacy of her famous misogyny speech, and where she sits on the topic a decade later. Credit: Supplied
“You can see how uncomfortable I am, which I think is important,” Fennell says.
“I think that moment, we had done a lot of other filming by that point, and I wasn’t quite sure how everything was coming together.
“Then, meeting Raymond, that moment of me walking out (afterwards), they didn’t even put any cuts in it.”
Fennell has a moment of clarity as he speaks directly to his cameraman: “When you are putting this thing out into the world that is good for your business, potentially, there are very real ramifications for people who consume this content,” he says of his interaction post-interview.
“The Aussie content creator, (what he does) doesn’t necessarily make him a good or bad person — I am never going to sit in judgment of other people being good or bad — but what I am saying is, the content you put out into the world, at scale: Raymond is what you get.
“I wanted to make that idea really clear to people, and to try to do that without being finger-waggy.”
Fennell says he doesn’t like the “theatre” of journalists telling people how to think, “or haranguing people for no reason”.
“I like giving people enough space to say the quiet part out loud,” he says.
Marc Fennell has spent two years working on this documentary project. Credit: Supplied
He achieves his goal, and the three episodes make for compelling television.
Will it land with everyone? It’s hard to tell.
“And I am genuinely curious to work out what the audience will think,” he says.
“Of everything I have ever made, I genuinely don’t know how people are going to respond to it. Is my nervousness coming out?
“It’s just so different for me.”
