Estimated reading time: 17 minutes
Dear Dr. NerdLove: I keep hearing you and other people say that “the bar for men is in Hell”, but I can’t believe that’s the case. I’ve got my shit together, I’ve got my own home, a good job, I’m educated, I treat people nicely and I never get a date.
Every time I talk to women, things never go anywhere. I match with women on Hinge and I meet all the standards they say they want and I get ghosted. Meanwhile, guys who’ve cheated on every girlfriend they ever had and gaslight every woman around them are getting laid and having a great time.
If the standards are so easy to clear, why the hell are guys like me still single?
Clear The Bar
You’re misunderstanding what “the bar is so low” actually means, CTB.
Let’s start with the fact that the metaphorical height is a measure of not just expectation but also of experience.
When we talk about “a high bar to clear”, it’s about recognizing the difficulty – and thus importance or significance – of what’s being asked and the standard to which someone is being held. If you want to become a doctor, for example, you have a high bar to clear – years of training and study in med school, interning and residency at hospitals and so on. The standards to get your medical license are understandably high for what should be obvious reasons, and not everybody is going to be able to meet them. It doesn’t mean that someone who clears those standards is a good doctor or is competent or is going to be guaranteed a private practice and six figure salary. It just means that we expect our doctors to reach certain minimum standards, and we set those standards high because we want people to be at least able to reach that standard if they’re going to be healing the sick and tending to the wounded.
On the other hand, When we talk about “a low bar”, it’s usually in the context of having lowered one’s expectations because of past disappointment. If I say “A power grid that doesn’t shit itself and die and plunge the state into a blackout is a low bar to clear”, what I’m saying is that “I want more from this than ‘didn’t actively make life worse’”. The fact that ERCOT didn’t completely collapse this time doesn’t mean that they’ve succeeded and we’re happy with them, it just means that they’ve accomplished the bare minimum of “I didn’t spend a week without power in the freezing cold because our jank-ass power grid didn’t fail again”… a not-unreasonable expectation. It’s a bitter acknowledgement that we’ve had to revise our expectations downward repeatedly, and for once they actually managed to meet them.
So it is with dating and relationships. When women about how “the bar for men is so low/in hell/in the core of the Earth”, they’re not talking about how if you hit those marks, you’re going to get a girlfriend or relationship. What they’re talking about is “we want more from you, but experience has taught that this is about the most we can expect, it’s incredibly little, and people are still not reaching this level.”
The frustration comes from the experience of women who date men trying to find partners and relationships and how often they’re disappointed by the lack of effort or care their partners put in, and how that disappointment has lowered their expectations for potential dates. I have dated women who were pleasantly shocked that I read for pleasure or that I owned my own suit – things they saw as lacking in previous partners and had, in some ways, resigned themselves to as the cost of entry to a relationship.
When women say “the bar is in hell”, what they’re ultimately saying is that they’re asking men to meet qualifications that women feel should be coming standard as just part of being a person, and then men fail to do even that… and often proceed to complain that women are asking for even that much. It’s a little like car companies being upset that they’re being asked to make cars that have functioning brakes and don’t lock you in when the car is on fire and complaining that nobody’s buying their murder coffins.
(I’d make a joke about how it’s like asking for food that isn’t actively contaminated by e-coli or rat feces, except the number of FDA recalls this year suggests that this is asking for too much.)
Just as importantly, you – like a lot of other men – are missing what the bar actually is. Once again, this is a case of men listening to other men about what women want, while dismissing women’s stated desires and standards as being incorrect or self-delusional, if they’re not outright accusing women of lying. This leads to guys complaining about how they’re supposedly clearing the bar and yet somehow women are not only not dating them but asking for more.
The bar isn’t having a job or your own apartment. The bar isn’t about how you dress or how much money you make. The bar is being able to say “yes” to questions like “are you a grown-ass adult and decent human being who treats other people like people?”, “do you actually ask questions on a date instead of just talking about yourself?” “are you looking for a partner and not a bang-maid/mommy figure?” and “do you have any emotional intelligence at all?”.
And just to be clear: managing to get over the bar isn’t how you get a partner. That’s what gets you in the running in the first place. It’s the prerequisite for being in the game. You’re still going to have to be able to talk to women, connect with them and be an overall likable person. You’re going to have to be the sort of person that women are going to want to share their time and their lives with, and those qualities are the sort of soft skills that a lot of guys actively disdain while insisting that women actually want entirely different things that nobody is actually asking for.
(And yes, actually listening to women is one more reason why the bar is in hell)
If you don’t clear that bar, you’re not even in consideration. And this is precisely why people sound so very frustrated when they say the bar is in hell; because it shouldn’t be that hard to reach those standards. And once the bar is in hell… there’s no incentive or reason to bother lowering it any further because what even is the point?
It’s great that you’ve got a nice job and apartment my guy, but how about working on those personal skills? Because that is the part you seem to not be getting… and you’re not likely to be getting a date until you actually figure that out.
Good luck.
Hi Doc,
So here’s the situation. I’m a genuinely good guy who’s had a really tough time trying to get anywhere in dating. It’s the one part of my life that just doesn’t seem to move forward, and it’s been life-long. No matter what I do, nothing really happens. There are a few patterns I’ve started noticing, but I can’t tell whether they’re connected or just coincidence.
First off, I’d say I’m actually pretty comfortable around women. I treat them the same way I treat anyone else, with respect and openness, and in return they’re usually warm and receptive. The dynamic varies, but there’s almost always a sense of ease, trust, and often playfulness. I meet a lot of women through hobby groups, mutual friends, social gatherings and work events. Most of my friends are women. I don’t cold-approach strangers in general, and most of my interactions happen naturally in shared environments. The interactions are almost always positive, although it’s rare that these relationships develop to a point that communication extends outside of that environment. For a handful of recent examples:
• I was recently sitting at a table with a female friend, shared with some people she knew. When I went to grab a drink, one of the them was looking at me from across the bar. When we both returned, she struck up a conversation. Within minutes she was laughing easily at what I said, and lightly touching my arm while we talked.
• There are at least two women I see somewhat regularly who noticeably adjust their hair or look at me when I’m around. They don’t initiate conversations, but when I do speak to them, they seem genuinely pleased and engaged.
• I’ve been told by one of my hobby instructors that some women have mentioned they find me handsome. From time to time, I also notice women glancing at me from across the room. I don’t tend to see this interest outside of the hobby, however.
On paper, all of this sounds encouraging, yet nothing ever materialises. On the occasions I do make a move, things seem to fall apart almost immediately. For example:
• Years ago, I met two women from the same meetup, but at different times. With each, there was good chemistry and playful banter, and they found excuses to message me occasionally. I invited them out, separately, to another shared-interest event. Both said yes, but both ended up ghosting me.
• I had one woman message me through a group chat, the second time I met her. She literally had no reason to do so, but we had some playful back and forth. She has not made contact since, and while I do still see her and we engage in a positive manner, she doesn’t stick around long, or appear interested in getting to know each other better.
The reason I’m writing now is that there’s a woman I’m currently interested in and get along with really well. There’s some tension, I feel. I hadn’t planned on pursuing anything, but she invited me to text her about an upcoming event. To me, that seemed like at least a green light for continued interaction. I reached out, and she hasn’t responded. I know this kind of thing is common, but it feels like a recurring pattern in my experience.
The only times I’ve ended up dating, which has been four times in the last twelve years, were when a woman made an effort to spend time with me. Consistently, those women have turned out to be emotionally unavailable or carrying significant unresolved trauma, and those connections fizzled out quickly. To be fair, I have my own trauma that I’m actively working through, but still, I can’t shake the feeling that I somehow present as a “safe place” for emotionally unavailable people, while maybe unintentionally putting off women who are ready. I also don’t use dating apps, because again, as another form of active pursuit, I actually never got any matches, and it’s put me off from making too much effort in trying.
So, in short: when I do nothing, I continue to receive positive signals but nothing actually develops. Yet the moment I try to move things forward, I end up getting rejected.
Interestingly, I have a close female friend who insisted, very early in our friendship and without prompting, that I must “have women lining up”. She still does so, and others have said similar. She’s seen how I interact with people and describes me as attractive, kind, stable, and enjoyable to be around. There’s been no suggestion that I am too intense or “trying too hard”. If anything, I feel as if I’m very casual and respectful about it all. My therapist has also suggested that there is “nothing wrong with me” in this area, and that echo the sentiment of a dating coach I hired many years ago. I also got myself tested for ASD, but this came back negative.
As you can probably tell, it’s gotten to the point where I overanalyze every interaction, trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong.
Going Nowhere Fast
Here’s a thing about patterns, GNF: sometimes you’re not seeing all of the pattern, just the parts that you’re most focused on or familar with. The thing is, that’s not always what’s causing those patterns.
Part of the problem is that it’s very hard to get perspective on what’s going wrong. You’re too close to the problem – metaphorically speaking – so you’re missing a lot of crucial information. It’s not that you’re wrong, so much as you’re not seeing the complete picture, and thus you’re basing your assumptions on the small section you do see.
In fact, you give an example of this when you talk about your friend: “I have a close female friend who insisted, very early in our friendship and without prompting, that I must “have women lining up”.” This is an example of someone who’s seeing part of the picture, but not the whole of it. She’s seeing you and how you behave with her, filtering it through her knowledge of you in the context of your friendship and drawing a conclusion from it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that her assumptions about you are wrong and not to be trusted; it’s simply a limited perspective. She sees you in this particular context and extrapolates from there.
But I’m guessing that she hasn’t seen your interactions with the women you’re talking to as they were going down, so she has no reliable way of gauging what’s going on with them. While she’s not wrong that you’ve got qualities that women would find appealing, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t things that you may be doing that are working against you or aspects that you’re missing.
And it is a matter of missing things. As I’ve said, we’re not perfect observers of the world around us, and it’s very easy to let our assumptions color how we see things. And I think there’s an assumption that you’re making that is blinding you to where things are going wrong, and it’s being compounded by something you’re doing – or, rather, not doing. Stick with me, I promise this will make sense.
So, first off: it’s helpful to understand that there’re three aspects to being an attractive as a potential partner; there’s getting people’s attention, building interest and inspiring them to want to stick around. Keeping these three aspects in balance is important, because without that balance, it doesn’t work.
For example: the world is full of people who look good and can be superficially charming, but once you get to know them, you’d rather chew glass than ever talk to them again. They’re the sort of person who’s great in the early stages when you’re just getting to know them, but then things fall apart soon after. They tend to be the sort of person who get a lot of first and second dates but rarely get third ones, or have relationships that last longer than a few weeks or months.
Similarly, there are people who can be incredibly charming and fun to spend time with, and who are sensitive, warm and caring people. However, they are bad at getting people’s positive attention and notice. They may be excessively shy, they may not be good at the early stages of socializing, or they neglect their personal grooming. This tends to cut them off at the knees before they get to where they can put their interpersonal charm and warmth into play.
Meanwhile, a person who’s good at getting positive attention – their grooming and hygiene are on point, they dress well and so on – and is a good and considerate person, can still fail at getting a partner if they don’t have the skills to turn that initial notice into attraction and interest. They would be a great boyfriend if someone got to that point with them, but without that second aspect, they’re out of balance and thus it doesn’t reach that stage.
From the sounds of things, you’re in that third category. You’re strong at attracting people’s attention and initial interest – that is, getting them to want to talk to you – and you’re a good and considerate friend, which speaks to your potential as a partner. But the middle stage – generating enough interest and connection to get a date – is where things are falling through, based on what you’ve shared here.
Where things get tricky is that a big part of generating interest is about reading the vibes and matching them correctly.
When we talk about vibing with someone or understanding the vibes, or how the vibes are “bad”, we’re talking about all the little aspects of interaction that we pick up on, consciously and subconsciously and how they blend together to create a whole. Being able to read the vibes means being aware of those interactions and knowing how to respond to them positively. To strain an already imprecise metaphor to a breaking point, matching someone’s vibe amplifies it and strengthens it; if you don’t match, you risk creating interference that can disrupt the vibe or cancel it out entirely.
This why being able to read the vibes matters – not just “I’m getting signs of interest” but what kind of interest and to what degree, as well as picking up signs of compatibility, getting a read on their personality and whether it meshes with yours and so on. Initial interest is shallow interest; people can think that someone’s good looking and seems cool, but that interest can fade quickly if people don’t build on it. And if you can’t pick up on the vibes, it’s very hard to build on that initial interest.
Consider your friend. When you met, you two got along well; your senses of humor matched up, you and she both could pick up on and understand each other’s emotional state, you could recognize that you had a platonic connection but not necessarily a romantic or sexual one. You read the vibes and matched them and have become very close friends.
Meanwhile, it seems like you struggle to read and match the vibe with the people you’re interested in. Seeing as how the examples you list all proceed similarly – they show signs of initial interest, you make a move, they seem to lose interest – it suggests that you’re having a hard time either reading the vibe correctly or matching it.
Now, there is something in your letter that I think tells us where the disconnect is happening, and I think it’s that in all of the examples you’ve presented, the women have all made the first move, not you, and things fizzled once you escalated. That, I think is the biggest indicator of where things are going wrong. I can’t say whether you’re too intense or if the banter is off, but I do think the core problem is that you’re misreading things from the jump and, as a result, you’re escalating faster and further than the situation warrants.
It may be seeing potential romantic interest where there isn’t any, or it may be that you’re moving to asking them out (or implying you’re interested in a date) when they aren’t there yet. I also suspect that you may see their banter as being flirtier than they intend it to be, and your responses are hitting just slightly off.
I think this is a matter of inexperience more than anything else. You mention that you don’t do a lot of active pursuit of relationships, which is a clue. So is the fact that the relationships you have had have been initiated by other people who then proved to be poor matches for you. These are people who were doing a lot more of the work, especially early on, and it’s possible that you were carried along by the fact that they were expressing interest in you. If that’s the case, there’s almost an incentive not to try to gauge compatibility or whether someone was right for you; why question what feels like a good thing?
Thus we have the core of the problem. I think you’re reading the vibes wrong and not understanding the intent or matching the overall vibe correctly. Because you tend to be less active and more receptive, you haven’t had much experience of reading interest or intent, especially in the early stages of getting to know someone. As a result, you misread things or misjudge them; you act according to what you think you’re seeing and it fails to match what they’re seeing and feeling. As a result: the vibes clash and it falls apart.
Now the good news is that this is a fixable problem. Trying to read the vibes with another person is a social skill, and as I am so often saying, social skills are skills. Skills are improved through practice and deliberate use… and that improvement also includes making mistakes and learning how to correct for them.
In this case, there’re two things I think you need to do. The first is that I think you need to be more active in trying to socialize with people, especially people you’re attracted to. I don’t think you should necessarily be going out and doing approaches or hitting on the hot women in your hobby scene, but I do think taking a more active role in meeting people and making those initial openings is important. It’ll help you learn to recognize not just signs of interest but invitations to go talk to people instead of waiting on them to come to you.
The second thing I think you should do is slow your roll when some of the women in your group make the first move. I think if, instead of asking them out, you gave more time to talking with them at the events as well as when they message you and focus on getting to know them, you’ll not only have fewer instances of people just straight ghosting you, but there will be more times when someone wants to actually go on a date with you. Slowing things down will also give you more of an opportunity to fine tune your interactions with them so that you have a better chance of correctly matching the vibe.
There will still be times when you misread things or when people don’t seem to click with you even when you thought it was going well. This can be frustrating, but it’s part of learning. The key is to take as objective a look at things and say “OK, I did this and it didn’t quite work; what if I dial it back a little and do this instead next time?” or “OK, I think I misread her intent here; based on how things went, I think this is a sign she was more interested in me as a friend, so I’ll keep that in mind next time I see similar behavior.”
Do this, and you’ll have much better results overall.
Good luck.
