Welcome back to Direction Dissection! Where I talk to your favorite cult-classic directors about why their films are “cult-classics” in the first place, among plenty of other things.

This time, we continue down the dinosaur highway with PART TWO of my interview with director Adam Simon, talking about the saurian-horror classic, CARNOSAUR!

(Check out Part One right here!)

As always, you can find the FULL TRANSCRIPTS of Part One and Part Two of this interview on my website, www.giallojulian.com. Not only that, but you’ll be able to check out my previous Direction Dissection interviews, as well as full transcripts of my New Blood Drops interviews, news about upcoming and currently released indie horror, events, and zombie movie reviews!

With all that said, let’s talk more about our “green brothers” and “killer poultry!”

In Carnosaur:

“A genetically manipulated and very hungry dinosaur escapes from a bioengineering company and wreaks havoc on the local desert town. A security guard and a girl environmentalist try to stop both it and the company’s doomsday bioweapon.“

Dread Central: It would be disingenuous of me NOT to talk about the stars of the show: the DINOSAURS! Now, I separated this question into five parts, so it’s not TOO overwhelming.

For Carnosaur, the dinosaurs chosen were the Deinonychus and the Tyrannosaurus rex, respectively. Was their inclusion always in the cards? Were there other dinosaurs to be featured? And was the fact that none of these dinosaurs belong to the Carnosauria family ever a factor?

Adam Simon: [Laughs] Well, to answer the last of those—No, I’m sure it was not a factor. I think that mostly came from John [Carl Buechler], probably, and from Roger [Corman]’s early discussions with him, because I do believe he was already attached when Roger came to me… I think John probably wanted to direct it, and Roger was like, “No. I’ve got this guy I want to have direct it.”

It’s an interesting question. I don’t really know, and I don’t even remember now. It’s been so long, I haven’t looked at the script in a couple of decades. I don’t even remember how specific I was about what they were, or whether or not they were going to be some new variant created by whatever she was doing with the birds. But I do believe the proposal to do those specific ones came from Buechler, probably.

And I’m sure nobody even bothered to think about whether they were actually carnosaurs. [Laughs]

DC: I mean, to be fair—at the time that [John] Bronson’s book was written—they were considered carnosaurs. It wasn’t until a couple of years after [its release] that they weren’t [anymore], so it’s completely forgivable.

AS: And I just don’t remember if those were the same versions that were in the book or not.

DC: The T. rex shows up as a baby [in the book]. [The big dinosaur] was originally a Tarbosaurus, which is just a T. rex, but smaller, and the Deinonychus did show up in the book, so we have two of them. I remember hearing that there was a Pterodactyl puppet made for [the movie], I think.

AS: That perks my memory, and I do believe that there was, but I don’t remember what. Yeah, you saying that, I really remember that now.

Do we not use, like, a baby one? Do we not see one hatch? A little mini [Pterodactyl]? I think the idea was that that’s what we were going to see come out of one of the eggs, but I don’t think that ever got made. Seems to me that there was a scene in the script where we did have that, because — certainly — it would make sense… That’s the one dinosaur that everybody associates with birds.

DC: Oh yeah. Even though it’s technically not a dinosaur, but, you know, no one cares.

AS: Exactly! No one cares. Certainly we didn’t.

DC: Yeah! [Laughs]

AS: No, I think [Buechler] might have done [a Pterodactyl puppet]. Did it ever show up in the sequels? Or in Dinosaur Island?

DC: It didn’t even show up in any of the sequels, but Dino Diego [found] something. There’s a Pterodactyl puppet in Dinosaur Island at one point, and we speculate that it was the puppet that was supposed to be in Carnosaur.

AS: Yeah, that would make sense… I have to honestly say I don’t remember, but it does strike me that it was in the script. In particular, I think there was a little baby one that hatched from an egg.

DC: I guess it just got left on the cutting room floor, or something, like many things.

AS: I don’t think we even shot it.

DC: Oh, okay.

AS: There was so much I had to remove… Literally less that two weeks before we started to shoot was the first I heard that we were not going to have $5 million, and instead we were going to have well under $1 million… Then I just had to start pulling things out of the script.

I mean, it was either that or just walk away, because there was going to be no way to do it. I’m pretty sure that that was stuff that actually never even got shot.

DC: It’s like, “Roger’s not going to put up money for more film. He said we can’t go into the giant T. rex budget. We have to drop the scene.”

AS: There was a lot of that. No doubt, no doubt.

DC: Another thing that I found peculiar, actually, is that the dinosaurs… are not vocalized by the usual stock roars normally used in these types of movies. Usually, it’s like the same three roars used over, and over, and over. The sequels use those same roars. This one didn’t. These are very much higher-pitched and more avian in nature, with one instance even mimicking a hawk. This even extends to the T. rex, who gives more sorrowful howls than primordial roars.

What was the reasoning behind this? Whose idea was it to go this route to have the dinosaurs sound more bird-like?

AS: Yeah, that was definitely the idea… We really were leaning into this idea about the dinosaur-bird connection, and wanted to get away from the cliches of these dinosaurs letting out what sounded like giant lion roars, or something.

DC: Because that’s exactly what they were.

AS: Right! No doubt that’s what they would have been. It’s like, “Oh wait! Is that the MGM [Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer] lion? No, it’s a T. rex!”

It’s like, no — If the whole point is that these are somehow what evolved into birds, then their whole vocalization—their whole EVERYTHING—should be more like that. So I think that was to be consistent with the whole concept in there of the relation between dinosaurs and the birds. You know?

And hey; one of my other most favorite movies is, of course, [Alfred] Hitchcock’s The Birds… That’s a movie that doesn’t even have a musical score. It just has all these creepy bird sounds and stuff.

DC: And it’s terrifying!

AS: And it’s terrifying! So we were definitely going for that. It was definitely intentional. I didn’t realize that in the sequels, they would have reverted to just roars.

DC: [sarcastically] What!? You didn’t watch the sequels?

AS: I have not. I can honestly say I have not seen any of the sequels, nor Dinosaur Island.

DC: Oh man. Don’t worry [about them].

Alright, so the next part of this question—my favorite scene—the BIG Deinonychus scene. Where the Deinonychus kills all the hippies at the construction site. Everyone’s chained up, it goes in, and just starts biting the shit out of them.

AS: Greetings, green brother!

DC: “Greetings, green brother!” And then just Rah! [pantomimes Deinonychus attacking] I love this scene. I want to know ALL about it. How did you go about shooting it? How long did it take? And one thing I noticed — the Deinonychus eats the woman’s leg like a piece of chicken. Was that intentional?

AS: Oh, yes.

DC: Because it seemed like Clint Howard’s whole thing!

AS: Yeah, 100%! So that was a lot of fun. It was one of the most fun parts of the shoot. There are no official actors in that scene at all. The guy who plays the — [holds up peace sign]

DC: The “green brother” guy.

AS: Brother Whatever-his-name-is… was literally my neighbor up in Malibu. Really eccentric, interesting, talented, wonderful man. Vietnam vet, very eccentric, and — literally — he had grown up in the house next to the house I was living in at the time, up in Big Rock. Those houses are gone now, after this recent fire. It’s been there a long time.

His name was Jul Niemier. He played that character, and then we had a bunch of extras, and then the featured extra, that girl, and I’m — I’m sorry that I can’t remember her name [Pamela March]. She was one of the assistant editors. She was literally a crew member, but she was funny, and she was cute, and she wanted to be in it, and went for it. So we did that. It was at the location where we actually had the trailer and all that stuff.

Then, of course, that’s also one of the miniatures that we use. When it actually pulls off the leg and all that — that’s the miniature Deinonychus puppet holding a little — obviously — miniature fake leg. Then we did the very gory reverse [shot] on her stump after it’s taken to show that. And yes, it’s not just that the Deinonychus — [laughs] — eats it like a chicken leg — Because that was just so obvious. He’s like, “It’s a leg!” [takes bite]

DC: [Laughs] Yeah, exactly!

AS: And not only does that — He literally — and I said before, I don’t like the actors to wink at you, but that doesn’t mean the movie can’t — It’s actually a moment that literally breaks the fourth wall, because the Deinonychus seems to look pretty much right into the camera and go, “Yum!” [takes another bite]

DC: Just taking a big bite, being like, “Tastes like chicken!”

AS: Tastes like chicken! Exactly! So that was fully intentional, and really, really fun. That was one of my favorite things, even in the script. It was just a really fun idea, and we were contrasting all these different ideas about the environment. Because — on the one hand — there are these environmentalists. On the other hand, Tiptree herself — unbeknownst to them — is more of an environmentalist than they are, because her whole goal is — as we’ve talked about — to actually get rid of humanity, and turn the Earth back to its natural leaders.

So the idea that these guys would have become victims of [her plan] was great.

DC: Ironic!

AS: It was ironic, it was fun, and it was also just too irresistible. Like, there’s that classic thing that people chain themselves to trees, and to equipment, and stuff like that… I thought that was a hilarious idea when I was writing it, to have these environmentalists chained up there, and then when the dinosaur gets there, it’s just like a free smorgasbord, because no one can get away.

DC: [as Deinonychus] “It’s my birthday! Holy shit!” [Laughs]

AS: Exactly! [Laughs]

DC: It’s a brilliantly done monster scene because of all that stuff. There’s the irony of all these environmentalists getting eaten by an environmental plan — the true environmental plan — there’s the dinosaur eating [a limb like] a chicken leg, the “green brother guy” gets his face ripped off. It’s just a whole lot of fun.

AS: Yes, and it does make that an immortal line: “Greetings, green brother!”

DC: Oh, I say that so many times. That’s actually part of my lexicon now in my everyday life. So if there’s anything you can take from this, it’s that there’s one person out there who says that at least once a week.

AS: Good, good.

DC: So I want to talk about my second favorite scene now, which is the showdown between Sheriff Fowler — Harrison Page — and the Deinonychus. The climax before the actual climax! Honestly, I was like, This is tense! Really tense scene!

What’s the story behind it? Dino Diego mentioned in his video that in a previous script, a family was supposed to be killed by the Deinonychus. Was that supposed to be Fowler’s family?

AS: Yeah, that was how that originally was. That was, again, one of the things that just fell by the wayside when we were having to [cut scenes]. I literally had to drop, probably, 25%, 30% of the script. It was amazing that it still made any sense at all. Just to be able to do the whole thing in the seventeen days — or whatever we had — and [with] the money that we had.

But Harrison himself — he and I spent a lot of time talking about westerns. His character is wearing a cowboy hat, and that was a fun idea. It was also a bit of a nod — for the dinosaur geeks out there — it’s a Valley of Gwangi nod, which was itself a western with dinosaurs. Right?

DC: Exactly!

AS: So the one place we were going to let that in was, like, the idea of high noon.

DC: It’s a showdown between the dinosaur [and the sheriff]!

AS: But yes, originally his motivation there is, in fact, that [the Deinonychus] actually killed his family.

DC: Okay! Which, I mean, it still makes sense in the movie, because the last time you see them, they’re sick. So it’s like, Oh, they probably died from the sickness. Now he has nothing to lose.

It makes perfect sense that the Deinonychus originally killed his family, and he’s out there [for] the final showdown.

AS: He’s like, “Now it’s personal! Yeah!

DC: [as Sheriff Fowler] “I got nothing to lose! Come get me, motherfucker!” And I’m like, That’s perfect!

AS: That’s right, and he’s really good. I can still picture him out on the little main street set that we had on Main Street in Venice, looking good and walking down there, and he’s great. He’s another good example of these actors who are really good at just fully committing. I mean, he’s totally real.

DC: He’s probably my favorite actor in the entire movie.

AS: He’s really good. Just really grounded.

DC: That whole scene was just—From going to the pet shop where you see all the dead animals and stuff, to the Deinonychus seeing him, and the twist [he does] as he turns around and shoots it. It’s just SO good.

AS: Yeah. Good.

DC: I was also wondering — Whose idea was it for him to get a talon up the ass? [Laughs] What a way to fucking go!

AS: What a way to go! That I don’t know. That might have just been how we staged it. We wanted it, again, to be—There is definitely an element of body horror.

DC: Oh yeah. And that’s HORRIFYING! [Laughs]

AS: It’s horrifying, and it’s like with the leg thing. That was one of the things that I figured they’re not going to [do in Jurassic Park]. Because again, the Corman rule is, “You got to give people something for their money that they’re not going to get from the bigger, more expensive movie.”

So some of that is the humor and the knowingness, some of it is the more downbeat ending, and some of it is the bigger ideas, perhaps, but some of that is also the gore. Because there was going to be a definite limit to the gore that [Steven] Spielberg would do, and we were like, “No, we want this to be a REALLY gory type of horror film, or dinosaur film.”

It seemed to me that dinosaur movies are usually so much about the sense of wonder of the dinosaurs that even if you’re afraid of them, they’re not that gory. But we wanted this to feel more like the Alien movies, or like a [David] Cronenberg movie. Plus, you know, body horror effects are much cheaper and easier to do, and they’re just literally visceral, and more immediate.

So I don’t remember how the decision was made to literally give him a dinosaur proctology exam, but it would have been because of the general idea we were all queued into, and that I was constantly pushing that when there is horror, it should actually be BODY horror.

DC: You’re sitting there like, “What’s something Jurassic Park wouldn’t do? I know! He’ll get a claw up the ass!”

AS: It won’t do a claw up the ass! It’s not going to do a self-cesarean!

DC: So once again, your friends and mine, the Eunice Corporation, show up to carry on their dastardly deeds, committing crimes against humanity. This offers a connection to your first film, Brain Dead, although it’s a bit murky — given that Doc is watching Brain Dead while having an on-shift nightcap.

“I was curious — What exactly is the continuity between the two films, if there is one? Also, I noticed that your portrayal of Eunice has gotten way more cynical since Brain Dead, with “artificial wombs” and them accepting contracts that allow mad scientists to bioengineer killer chickens without ANY company oversight.

AS: [Laughs] Yeah.

DC: Is it safe to say your views on corporate institutions grew even more critical in the years between the two films?

AS: No doubt, but it’s also just carrying on the sensibility of the first [film], because you remember… that moment in Brain Dead when Billy Paxton says, “From the tritium that feeds the rockets to the powdered milk that feeds the baby — we’re Eunice!”

Which was very inspired by those ads they used to have for Beatrice—which was a food company—but they would have these ads going, “We’re Beatrice,” and would show rockets taking off, and this taking off, and baby food, and all this, and [I’d] be like, “What the FUCK? What the hell is this company?”

DC: Like, “You’re making food in the same place you’re making jet fuel?!”

AS: Right! Because that was certainly one of the big developments. I’m not enough of a historian or an economist to understand when corporations went from mostly doing one thing to becoming these mega-corporations that do all these different things.

DC: I think it was around the 60s, if I remember correctly.

AS: Yeah! I still wanted to have some fun with that. At the same time, I loved the idea of the joking self-awareness of having Brain Dead in there, and of even seeing the Eunice symbol in there. It’s never commented on. I don’t know how to explain it. There is no explanation for how it could be that Eunice was real, even though she’s also there in a movie about it. I got no explanation. I just wanted to do it.

DC: I think maybe it’s a little bit of a nod to the brain-puzzle-teaser-ness of Brain Dead.

AS: Yeah! And again… it was also a way of putting my signature on it, and kind of creating the Simon-verse.

Eunice is the ultimate enemy. But yes, it goes much further in this, because Eunice is doing all these different things. They’ve got chicken plants, but they’re also doing this, and they’re doing blueberries, and they’re doing bio-weapons, and they’re doing artificial wombs, and they’re doing — they’re doing everything. I just thought that was fun.

And… again, a nod to the 70s, and all the 70s paranoia that you see, even in those Corman films like Piranha and other ones — You know, when in doubt, blame it on the strange, evil multinational corporation.

DC: Of course.

AS: I didn’t want to use Dr. No, or some crazy Goldfinger. It’s like, “Who believes that?” But oh, there’s a company out there that’s doing all that? “Sure, I buy that”. 

DC: And now there are corporations that are paying for movies. Now corporations are “cool.”

AS: Oh yeah. Well, exactly. [rolls eyes] We’ve come a long way.

DC: [sarcastically] Yeah, I know, right?

AS: But it was fun to get to do that, and to keep up the symbol and everything. You know, the little infinity sign.

And I don’t know, I’m trying to remember if—I remember in the script, Doc is just sitting there, drinking, watching TV, but I don’t think that I put in the script that it was Brain Dead. Part of the thing with Corman was also—Oh! I know. So if you want to show someone watching TV, you either have to make that [fake show]—which I didn’t have time to—or you have to license what you’re showing. But with Roger, the rule always was you have to use something that you already own.

So he’s going to be watching TV. [Corman] said, “You have to pick a Corman movie to put in there.” And I was like, “Well, then I’m going to put my own Corman movie in there.”

DC: Free advertising! [as Simon] “Go watch Brain Dead!“

AS: Free advertising, remind people about that. Yeah, it was Raphael [Sbarge], who’s just lying there — He’s the one who just adlibbed, “Oh, I love this movie.” [Laughs]

Don’t worry, there’s still a good bit more to chew in the upcoming FINAL PART of this interview, so stay ravenous, Blood Babes! Coming soon!

Categorized: Interviews